Welcome to the Energetic Radio podcast. This episode is brought to you

by the school of play dot co, hosted by Dale Sibonham and

Paul Campbell. Each week, we'll bring to you tips, strategies, and ideas

on how you can bring more joy and happiness into your life and those you

share with. Alrighty, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. Episode number

362 of Energetic Radio. I tell you what, we're back in the

bunker. Bogdanahue is in the house. Not only that, we've seen him this

morning. Been a little shopping spree. The boys went out and about, getting a

couple of bargains. It's always cash early, though. What's the chances, right, that

we've got a podcast set and we're out shopping Wow. And we bump into our

guest store. The way I I did find out about the same.

Here, I here we go. I still think we should have been wearing the same

stuff. Oh, that's great.

Michael, mate, you are presenting all over the country, all over the world. Founder of

Journey Apparel. Welcome to the podcast. How are you? Thanks, Adam. Yeah. Good. Going really

well. Have you, been ripping the guts out of it? I'm

like I'm staying safe. There is nothing better than when a guest comes on. They've

done their due diligence, and they've actually listened to some episodes. Oh, when I

saw you this morning, I was like, boys are ripping the guts out.

I love that. That's oh, it's so good. I did we did do that. We

were in Orbus where we said We did. I did yell at people looked at

me in this direction. You did. True story. Yeah. I did rip the guts down

of the doors. Back to the scene of the car up, and he's this he's

this idiot going rip the guts out of it. The old lady was like Has

to be done. Has to be done. I love how that's caught on. Yeah. See

see what happens. I love it. Like, why not spread more positivity as well?

Right. Because you were when you sign off to people, when you say goodbye to

people in the community, how I know the question without notice. Are you a

take care or stay safe or what do you say what do you say to

people? In a presentation? No. No. Just just Out on the street. If you're just

walking to use and you're at the shops where it might be or you talk

to someone or even a friend and you you say goodbye to them. Pretty much

just see you next time or See you next time. Yeah. Have a good day

or, you know, something like that. So don't you reckon it could be better? Could

be. Yeah. I reckon it could be better. Yeah. I reckon it could be better.

If it's a safe that's crap. That stay safe is crap. Yeah. Yeah. And I've

caught myself since doing that. I'm a take care, man. Oh, yeah. And I didn't

know I was until I did it. But now I find myself everywhere. Me. I'm

like, it's all coming here. And even, like, to random people. I was and, like

care. Yeah. Like, the retail chicken will go, no. Take care. And I woke up

going, why do I tell that girl I would never know to take care of

who's working on? Take care. What I don't know. Take risks. Exactly

right. Leave laughter to the fullest. You know what I mean? Like, imagine if this

is everyone in society just started saying, like, when you sign off and say goodbye

to people. Yeah. Like, live life. Just take a risk. I'm looking at

your look at your T shirt, like, happy days. It's like, it should be, like,

be risky or something. Be risky. Be risky. But then

you're a weirdo. I know. Be like, Jesus Christ. But isn't it a shame that

you'd be in inverted commas a weirdo? Yeah. Like, yeah.

Rather than taking care. Or stay safe. It's like, come on. Yeah. You

could inject more positivity into this world by, hey, you say goodbye to

people. Well, there you go. I know. What a way to start the podcast. See

you next time. Let's go. Go and inspire someone today. That's cool

too. Yeah. Just really razz them up. Here's a challenge for

you as a guest. Some stage in the next three or two this week Yep.

When you say goodbye to someone, you cannot say, see you next

next time. I don't film it. You've gotta Go and razz it up today.

Wait. We're gonna hold onto that. Sit on the end of your seat, love. Yeah.

We're gonna sit on the end of your seat. Unbuckle and

take it off. Oh, here we go. I love this. I can't wait to hear

you come back with the message from this guy's gonna be great. He goes, boys,

I've done it. I've loved my challenge. So talk let's talk about Journey Apparel.

Where did it come from? Obviously, it's all around mental health and improving and

awareness, everything like that. How did it start? Yeah.

So it all came from my own lived experience, but

the brand started right before COVID, so probably not an ideal

time to start a side hustle or probably might have been a positive

for people that might have been going through stuff during that time. But, I've

eventually got to the stage where I thought, one, it could be a coping mechanism

for me. But I just thought that what I've been through,

like some really dark challenging times, I thought, why can't I put some more

positivity out in the world and, yeah, get more people to talk about mental

health and open up about their struggles. Because we know that the sooner someone

talks, the sooner their recovery can be. And, they can actually get the

support that they deserve. Because I think that I went through it for a

long time that you just think, oh, life sucks and it's not gonna get

better, but I wasn't really doing anything to help myself. But, yeah, if you can

try and get more people to do it earlier, you know, they get back on

track a lot sooner as well. Did you find starting the

apparel company gave you a sense of purpose? So it was like a double edged

sword. A, you'll put more positivity out in the world and supporting people going through

what you went through, but it also gave you a bit of purpose and drive

and and got you out of bed in the morning to did that drinking that

helped with the recovery for your mental health? Well, probably I

was it probably did help, like, is that extra coping strategy.

But I think at the same time for me, I was kind of already in

a good space because I'd worked on myself for kind of a decade leading

up to it. And I've always had a bit of a a passion for clothing

and trying to look good Mhmm. Which is always and I feel bad almost the

time. I know. You're a good looking marine star coming in. Yeah. Well Thanks for

the Invisalign. No. But, but, yeah, it was more so I

think I was at the stage where I wanted to just have a bit of

fun with it, but also, yeah, just get more people to to talk about it

because I was probably in the the better frame of mind at that point in

my life. Yep. What, what if you don't mind, what what was some of the

things that you sort of struggle with with your mental health when you say, like,

you had poor mental health? Like, do you mind talking a little bit more about

that? No. I can I can talk I'm an open book? I'll talk about whatever.

I know, like, growing up in a small country town, you don't really know much

about mental health, mental illness, And three guys in a room right

now, like, you wouldn't be talking about mental health. Yeah. %. So I

think I bottled up a lot of it for a lot of years. So for

me, from a young age, it looked like I had everything going together. Like, I

got an incredible family, amazing parents. My brother's

one of my best mates. But at the same time,

I was school captain in year 12, captain of a footy team, played

drums in a band, sang in a band. Now if you see that on an

average everyday person, you're like, this boy, what a legend. Like, he's a rock

star. But, yeah, from the age of 16, I was on that

mental health roller coaster up and down, and I didn't really know how to get

off it. But also, is this normal? Because I wasn't

aware of any of it. And it took me five years to actually have a

conversation with one of my, like, after my best mate's 20

birthdays, talk to my parents and make an appointment at the GP. Five

years. Yeah. Wow. And, I look at that now, and

the conversations like, I'm huge on conversations as are you boys.

But, if I hadn't have had that conversation then and there, who

knows what would have happened? But I was fortunate that

I did have the conversation, and I had great people around me the whole time.

But I still didn't feel comfortable to actually open up and talk about

those things I was going through. And I think there was certain points

in my life, and I look at all the different turning points and triggers and

things like that that impacted me. Like,

sporting injuries is one, that I look back on now, and it's just

like broken back at 17. That's a fair trigger because you take

sport away from a young bloke. There's not much else to do in a country

town apart from Particularly in Panello. Oh, yeah. Scrochep. I know. That's Yeah. That's sports

what you got. Exactly. So it's like you have a few beers after you play,

whether it be underage or overage. Mhmm. But the the

key trigger for me that impacted me the most, so I was, like, pretty much

back at the top and happy with who I was. We lost my auntie and

cousin in the Black Saturday bushfires in 02/2009. Oh.

And there's nothing that can prepare you for something like that,

to receive a phone call on the Sunday morning after it happened.

But it made me realize how much my parents and my friends and that meant

to me, but I was still treating them like shit. Yeah. And,

it was it's weird. Like, it wasn't me, like, treating them act or

actively trying to treat them like shit. It's just I couldn't really do anything

about it. And then turned to alcohol, and that pretty much

spiraled me into drinking every day or every second

day, suicidal thoughts all the time, and then almost acting

on that. And I'm, you know, happy to talk about that and dive in deeper

to that. But, eventually, just all of those things,

overweight, no self confidence, lack of self esteem,

hated myself, hated the world, and, you know, nothing was going to get better. And

then it just eventually turned for me that,

needed to have more conversations and get more regular medication checkups

and talk to the people that I trusted to try and get back on

track. Yep. Can I want to go back? You were 16

when when it first used to first start to feel it. Can you remember

can you remember the onset of it at 16? Can you remember it creeping? Was

and was it just now and again little thoughts

of feeling sad, or was it unmotivated? Can you remember

that first? Not not really. I always

I never really enjoyed school, and I I never really applied myself.

I was the class clown or a bit of a larrikin. Yeah.

And I enjoyed going to see my mates, but I didn't really enjoy the learning

aspect of things or spending time in the classroom.

And I don't know if that was my own doing or that kind of thing,

if I was going to school with that negative mindset and things like that.

But probably around that time, I lost my

grandfather, who was a huge figure in my life. And, like, I look back at

certain things like that, and that was probably a bit of a trigger to it.

Yeah. Okay. But because I wasn't, once again,

educated on it, I just thought, you know, I'm grieving or I'm sad and Yeah.

Then all of a sudden, those feelings of sadness then led into, you

know, maybe a prolonged period of time of sadness. And then it's

like, oh, this could be depression, but I didn't know what depression was.

So I think looking back on it, it was probably the loss of

my grandfather because we did spend a lot of time together. And my

brother and I were the only grandkids in Benalla still, so we got to spend

all the time with them getting picked up and that kind of thing. So they're

probably another kind of parent figure to me as well,

even though they're a bit older. But, yeah, just had a good relationship with him.

Because that's the key with it, isn't it? And, obviously, you've got your your journey

apparel, but you've also got another gig where you do drug and alcohol, you know,

workshops at schools and educate young people on mental health and those sorts of things.

And that's gonna be the key, doesn't it? We've got to try and educate the

young people that when you first start feeling a little bit off,

that's when you gotta put your hand up. But we as you know, it took

you five years. Definitely. So it's tools in your toolbox. Yeah. Like, the the

younger that we can get into younger kids and psych

doesn't have to be that we're talking about suicide No. To, like, kids that are,

you know, this tall. A little bit sad. I'm just I'm just gonna be blue

today, but, mate, as soon as you feel that little bit blue Yeah. Just let

someone know. And Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all I and I

vividly remember I did a a suicide prevention bike ride

with Wayne Schwass a few years ago, and I didn't ride. I was

driving a support truck. This isn't a body for a for a bike a bush

bike. But it was,

there was a sign this message on the side of the truck I'm signing, I'm,

yeah, signing to start a conversation about suicide prevention. And there was all

these young kids coming up that were, you know, four or five years old, and

you're not going to dive in deep to what that message is on the side

of the truck. But I was trying to change the terminology. It's like, oh, if

you feel a bit sad, like, give someone a hug or Yep. Let someone know.

And then you'd give them the pen, and then they'd sign the truck. So there's

people that were four years old to 80 years old

that were signing the truck, and it's like, how cool is this? Like, the the

sooner we can have the conversation and the sooner that they can actually

get the support, like, the the quicker the the recovery is going for them. You're

right. Because it is it's mind blowing. And we we work with a lot of

primary schools, and it's now we get a lot of feedback that it's creeping in

at grade four. It's grade three that we're starting to see those early signs.

And, mate, ten years ago, we would have gone no way. But, yeah,

it's actually creeping in really early now. And I guess it's a good thing the

education is there and they feel comfortable speaking up, but, yeah, it's a concern too,

isn't it? It is. It is. So what do you remember what was the catalyst

for you to make that change? You know, you said when you spoke out, like,

was there was a light bulb moment or, like, how do you remember how that

happened? It's obviously very pivotal part in your life. Yeah. You know, that's a

crossroads moment. There was a there was a few kind of

moments throughout that kind of five to, I guess, eight year

period. So the first conversation I had with my parents and the

doctor, we're out of it, my mate's 20 on a

Saturday night. And my girlfriend at the time, she just said, look, I'm

not really, like and probably not the right time to be talking about it because,

you know, I'd had about 500 beers and, you know, and join a mate's party.

But she pretty much just came up to me and just said, look, I'm I'm

really worried about you. Like, you haven't been yourself. And this is, like, midnight

on a Saturday night or, you know, Sunday morning. And I was like, well,

you talk to someone after drinking. It's probably not the right time because,

you know, they're not the right mindset. But it kind of stuck with me, and

there was a lot of things that I don't remember from that night, but that

was one of them. And I just thought, alright. Well, once I kind of

sober up on, you know, Saturday, Sunday, I'm gonna talk to my

parents. Because at the time, I really like this girl. Yeah.

And then I had the conversation with my parents, and then we were lucky

enough that we made the appointment with the GP and got in that same day.

And we know how challenging that is these days, like, trying to actually get into

a a health professional straight away. Well, good one, I find too.

Particularly, Oregon is different in regional areas because you know you've probably got

a doctor, but I bet you don't have a doctor. No. I don't have a

doctor. I just go to whoever I can and Yeah. Nothing against them, but Yeah.

They don't care. They don't know you. Yep. But they do in regional

areas. Definitely. Yeah. And it it goes two ways. And like you say, don't have

a doctor and things like that. I've been in Melbourne over ten years, and I've

only been to a doctor once. And that was to get a doctor certificate because

I didn't wanna go to work. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, I don't

have someone that knows everything about you. Yeah. And and that's not

their fault either. And therefore has a genuine care Well, they will about you, not

me. But yeah. They they see, you know, a person every ten minutes, fifteen minutes

Yep. All day. How can they build a connection when they don't know you Yeah.

Or know your family? But then the same thing you mentioned that the same thing

about the regional town. I went to the doctor that my dad went to. Yeah.

Correct. So at the same time, it's like, you don't want your family and friends

to know that you've got depression or you're on medication or you're going through some

things, then all of a sudden, your dad your dad goes in to see the

same doctor and goes, oh, how's Mick going? Yeah. I saw him the other day.

And then if dad didn't know, which he did know. Yep. But it's like there's

almost that that worry. Small country town. Yeah. And the

thing that I always say too is that you can walk down the the main

street of a a small country town, and one end you farted. Stories travel that

quickly. You've shit yourself by the other end.

So it's like That's so good. Like, you don't wanna talk about.

That's good. I thoroughly enjoyed that. Because we know

resonate with that very well. Because we know how quickly those stories travel.

Because if I don't know you, my best mate knows you, and

then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, have you heard about this guy? And

stories just travel so quickly. So I think that was

one one turning point as well, that was, you know,

important for me that to have that conversation whether it was right time or

not. But then a little bit further on down the

track, when I'd been going through the, you know,

alcohol but also the suicidal thoughts and things like that, I was sitting

at home on a Sunday, probably had a massive night the night before, and mom

comes home and she got me at the right moment. She said, oh, you can

join at Weight Watchers for a dollar. And I was like, that's not

That is, like not confronting. That was straight to the point. And she had the

I think it was the Herald Sun because we got the paper on the Sunday.

Like, the Herald Sun was open. It was like the big $1 joined Weight Watchers.

And I was like, fire out, mom. It's like a backhanded compliment. It's like, you

put on a few. I know you're dealing with some issues, Sam, but you should

join Weight Watchers. Yeah. It's like There's no easy way to say that. It's like,

join Weight Watchers. But it's like I was looking at it both ways. It's like,

alright. I was in the right frame of mind. I I'm gonna save you some

money by joining up. But at the same time, I thought, well, I've obviously put

on a fair few, and I knew that, but it's always hard to hear it

from someone else. So the first Wednesday night, I went to

the meeting, and, if you've ever watched a movie scene where

there's a massive party going on, everyone's talking, having a great time, and someone

walks in, and then the Just stops. Stops. Yep. That

was pretty much what it was like because there's probably 45 women in this room.

I was the only guy. And I've walked in, and they've just, like, turned their

head, and they're like, is this guy in the right spot?

And I knew that I needed to do it because, like, I'm no no health

expert, but the way that I was going, it was like, was I gonna have

a heart attack? Yeah. Gotcha. And, I knew that it'd make mom

proud by trying to put those steps in place. And it sounds

cliche and corny, but it made me learn a lot more about myself, but

also nutrition as well because I'm sure we've all been in

positions where you'll have a burger for lunch and you go, what a beautiful

burger, and then five minutes later, you're like, oh, why did I do that? And

then and then I know that there's certain foods that will

impact me as, oh, like, someone that's always had body image issues. It's kind of

been that overweight kid on the monkey bars. It then translated

into that first meeting at Weight Watchers, and it then just,

you know, made me put more steps in place to look after myself. I

joined up boot camps. I was still trying to play footy at the time, so

probably wasn't moving too far out of the Gold Square, and I still gotta do

that now. But, yeah, it

was just really overweight. And then at the time, I broke my hand,

so had to have it operate on a couple of times. So then I couldn't

drive. So I was, like, walking to the White Watchers Meetings, which was

probably, like, four or five k round trip. Good. So it's like extra steps,

extra things that I could do to, if I walk out there two and a

half k's, I might drop another 800. It'll look better on the scales. But

it was just those, like, two of those key things that I can

vividly remember were probably, yeah, the two main kind of,

I guess, yeah, catalyst to keep the conversation going and look after myself. And good

on your mom. You know what? You gotta be cruel to be kind. Yeah. I

love that saying. And we spoke about last week in the pub. You gotta be

cruel to be kind. Right? And we all sort of scoffed at your mum going,

oh, mum. But Yeah. Dude, she did the right thing. No. I don't And she

she was not probably sugarcoat that. No. I bet sugarcoat that helped her.

She was in the right because she was coming from the right place. Veggie veggie

coated. Veggie coated. She loves her that much. She's like, I've gotta be cruel to

be kind here. And and how much are you sitting here now thanking her for

that one call? And, like, I love my wife and

I really respect my wife, but my parents and my brother, like,

especially, like, I've got so much time and respect for my parents. Like, I love

them. I'd do anything for them. And we've had some

difficult times over the years and some difficult conversations. But, yeah, if it

wasn't for them and not for not for obvious reasons, I wouldn't be in the

position I am today. Yeah. Like, because they're just, yeah, two of the most incredible

people ever. I love that. I wanna go back a few steps and went

again. You said you're a school captain, and you 12 had it all going on.

And then you followed it up with I was a class clown, didn't like learning,

got it. What the hell were you what was your school doing, making new school

captain? Was there was there another candidate? So what? I

think How's that? I can turn it on when I have

to. For this podcast, I'm

gonna try and make myself look and sound good. But as soon as as soon

as we turn the camera off and get out there, we just I'll be completely

different. I love it. I think for me, I've probably

always been, like, okay at certain things. Like,

I've never been, like, extremely good at just one thing. So

I've always I've always had people skills. And once again, I think it

goes back to my parents and always being around older people and having to

try and, I guess, level up a little bit with conversations from such a

young age. So I think, you know, you can't teach common sense or people

skills. So I think if you've got that, I think it

it really does help. So, I've always been able to talk to people, and

I've never really, like, struggled with that or worried about

that. But, also, I think I've always loved my sports. I've

always kind of got involved with different different sporting things apart from, you

know, swimming sports days and things like that, where I'd get mom to write a

note because I was fat and I didn't really wanna get the water. But I

was always just willing to put myself out there and help where

I could and, whether that be around sport, music,

or, you know, just getting up on stage and talking about stuff

or emceeing events and things like that, it never really bothered me. So I think

kind of having bits and pieces of different skills probably

helped me Yeah. Get into that role a little bit, and I loved it. Yeah.

Awesome. Like, I think it it taught me a lot because

when you are a school captain, you get to hang out with the teachers and

hear different conversations. And you get to go to different events like Anzac Day, and

you learn different, things about history and that kind of thing, which was

probably one thing that, you know, helped me, you know, learn skills

at a younger age to then translate into the professional life as well.

Love it. The your Side Hustle Journey Apparel,

where'd the name come from? So for me, everyone's got a

story. Yep. And I think if you had two to five

minutes with everybody on the street, they could share something good, bad, or

indifferent. Mhmm. Might be, you know, stay safe or rip the guts

out of the doors. But it's the gift that keeps

on giving up. And I'm just gonna keep going back to another day. I think,

yeah, if you've got, yeah, two to five minutes, someone could share a grief

bit of grief, sadness Mhmm. Great times. And,

you know, one of the other things from the other episodes that you guys spoke

about was, like, music. You know, music's been a a huge one for me. If

you went up to everybody and said, what's a song that, you know, triggers a

a happy emotion or makes you feel sad or takes you back to a sad

like, a a tough time, Everyone's got that. Yep. So for me,

everyone has a story, and I think everyone's got their own

journey. And it's not always going to be a straight line. Like, there's

going to be different challenges and hurdles, but it's about how you

actually get through it. And with the the jumper I've got on today, like,

with the wolf pack logo Yep. It's about, you know, the love and support that

you get from your family and friends. And you look at the wolf pack, you

can lead from the front, middle, or the back. And Mhmm. I think it's the

same with mental health. You don't always have to be putting posts up on

social media or standing on stages and talking about mental health. It might be as

simple as messaging a mate and going, hey. Haven't seen you for a bit. Like,

what have you been up to? Is everything alright? So it's I bloody love that.

Yeah. Well done. It's all it's all about the, yeah, the wolf pack for me.

And Yeah. I've got an incredible, you know, incredible

wife, incredible family, incredible friends, and they've been my wolf pack to

get me through the highs and the lows. And Yeah. Some of the time, I

probably didn't deserve it because I was treating them all like shit. But, at the

same time, they stuck by me. And then I think it kind of, once again,

translates into what can I now do for other people that might be going through

something similar as well? Love it. Love it. When you're when you're presenting,

obviously, the power of narrative and personal story is so powerful.

Is that how you hook the audience, you know, that you can really

build empathy with them and understanding through your vulnerability, like your

story. Definitely. And I try and make it more about the group, though. So, like,

I'll share my story and experiences just to try and, yeah, grab them, but then

also normalize it because there might be people in the room that don't know

what mental health is or they've never been through something similar or they might be

going through that and not really know how to open up and talk about it.

So I think the other thing as well is I'm an average everyday person. Yeah.

I've never earned huge amounts of money. I've never played sport at the highest

level. So if I go in there with that approach, they kind of look at

that and go, oh, he's the same as me. If he's got through it, so

can I? But then I kind of flip it back into

this is what I've been through and this is what I've done to get myself

out of it. But what can you now do to look after yourself? How do

you have the conversations with your friends? And there's an activity that I do at

the start around, you know, positive qualities that we have.

And you look at as humans, we're wired to think about

our negatives. Mhmm. I need to do this more. I need to put

more time and effort into, you know, this part of my life or this bit

of my work and things like that. But for some reason, I don't know if

we think that we're, like, arrogant for thinking good things about ourself. Mhmm.

But it just gets them to think about it. And then they write down the

three, and then you swap, you know, phones or bits of paper with the person

next to you. And it's like, alright. Hands up who found it hard to put

positive qualities down about themselves. And pretty much 90% of every

group will put their hand up Hands up. Then swap it. And then it's like,

alright. I want you to put down three positive qualities about the person you got

the phone from who found it easier almost a % every

time. Interesting. So I think it just goes from you know, it

starts off with a positive activity like that into my story and then into some

other things about about what we can do to help out ourselves, but also

the others as well. Yeah. What's the lay of the land look like out there?

So we obviously do a heap of workshops around well-being, connection, those sorts of

things. And we know that anxieties continue to rise. We know that

resilience is low. You know, feel people feel

blue often, but we never talk about drugs and alcohol in our sessions. That's

not that's not our we stay in our lane. That's not what we talk about.

What's the landscape out there looking like at the moment with the youth to say?

Is it I heard a little while ago that the youth to say

starting to turn away from drugs, alcohol more nowadays. It's it's almost cool

not to do it. Is that is that true? Is that what's happening? Or It's

interesting because we work with we work with over 300 universities and

colleges across Australia and New Zealand. Yeah. So we get to, like, see a lot

of people, get some, like, really good data and stats and have some

great conversations. And I don't know if it is because there's more talk about mental

health now. Mhmm. So we look at alcohol, especially. It's still

the number one. Like, we hear a lot more about illicit drugs, but Yep. There's

a like, alcohol is still the number one thing that's

impacting people's lives. But you talk to some of the

young people within the university space, and there's a lot more people that are

going out sober because they don't wanna waste the next morning. And then they don't

wanna wake up for three days after it feeling like crap. The other thing

as well is it's so expensive. Yeah. So, like, you look at the cost of

living these days and just the amount of money that people would

spend if they are only doing six hours of work a week.

Like, that's probably That's just pretty expensive. Yeah. And then they Yeah. Well, if

you went out in Melbourne Yeah. You know, like it you know, you go to

a bar It's $17 a pint. $17.18 dollars a pint. But then

you hear of other stories where there's people that can't go out without doing lines

of coke or, you know, things like that. So I've been, I guess, in a

a fortune position where I never got to that stage of using drugs. Like, it

was more alcohol. But I've had close family members and

friends to me that have been hooked on drugs, and it's not a pretty

sight. So, you know, our key message around it is

we're not here to tell you what to do. But you can do whatever you

want. It's your own decision, but here's some information to make the educated decision.

Yeah. But I think and I could be wrong. Like, I have

seen a bit of a shift because more of the the mental health discussions,

but you look at, like, vaping and things like that. Vaping's probably I mean, that's

the that's the worst thing we've ever created, isn't it? That's what's taken that's what's

gone rampant at the moment. We know. But But you look at, you know, things

like that where around vaping created to stop

smoking. But if you've if you've never smoked a cigarette in your life

and then you try vaping once, you're actually up to three times more likely to

smoke cigarettes. It's crazy. And I know that we created to stop smoking.

But let let's create to stop smoking. Let's create all these beautiful wonderful flavors and

really hook the young people into the life. So much cheaper and third cigarettes because

it's so expensive. And that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. We we get a lot.

We we have primary schools and they're finding vapes in the primary schools now, and

it's it's killing them. It it's breaking their little heart. They're breaking their hearts at

schools that they can't stop it. Yeah. It's mental. But And it's it's pretty sad

state of affairs when they're having to put in vape detectors and stuff in school

rather than, you know, what can we do to prevent getting to that stage? Yeah.

Yeah. It's yes. Crazy. And, mate, you've you've got a kid on the

way? Yes. Number one? Number one. Oi. When did

you do that? July. End of July? So it's it's

really exciting. I think there's so many, like, different feelings

about it because it's, you know, excited, nervous because

I've had this conversation with a few people lately. It's like if you go to

the gym or if you go to footy training, you can turn up there. If

someone's taking a session and they're taking you for the training session, you don't know

what you're doing. But once you turn up, they go, alright. We're doing push ups.

Mhmm. You know what you're doing, but you know how to have a rough idea

on how to do it. If you go to footy training, don't know what we're

doing, but we're doing lane work. Alright. I know what know what we're doing there,

but there's no real you can read books. You can listen to podcasts and

things like that, and it can tell you about, like, every baby and every individual

is going to be different. So 100%. I'm just pretty much yes. Yeah.

So you can read all the from two fathers, you can read all the books

you want. And I'm pretty much just, like, taking it as

it comes. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Super pumped about it all. But at the

same time, the the nerves come from, you know, am I going to be a

good dad? And I guess it's like that that anxiety of the change in

the life, but then also it's like I've worked on so many things to look

after my mental health. If I can't go to the gym, if I can't eat

the food, like, the food that I want, if I can't do certain things, is

it going to impact me? And then am I going to fall back into old

habits? So, it's just going to be about, I guess, pivoting and

doing the right things at the right time. Mate, you've got a beautiful heart. You're

gonna be a great dad. No. Thank you very much. You're gonna be a bloody

great dad. Obviously, you're going right. Christian without notice society, and I'll do one. What's

one bit of advice you would give him for parenthood coming up?

One bit of advice, parenthood. Don't have just go

for open mind. Just don't anticipate anything

and probably breathe, be calm. Things aren't gonna work at how

you want, but it's also magic. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing it. Just be

there. Be present as much as you can. Yep. And that's the greatest gift I

think you can give anyone. You can only give people your time, and that's your

kids, particularly from zero to seven. So my advice is

and I've obviously, I had mine over COVID, and I was on my phone too

much. So now I'm really I just put it away. I think that's the best

thing you can do. Get rid of that virus. Real quick, don't they? Yeah. They

do, but it's it's also not fair on you. You're missing

out. Whatever's on your phone can wait. Yeah. So that would be my thing. And

for anyone listening, I think we all need to be more intentional with that. Yeah.

Mine mine have been I needed to work on this as well. I'm giving it

to you. Is don't make everything a lesson. And I sucked at that early on.

It was actually my wife that pulled me up a little bit and she was

like Are you still working on that? I am still working on that. I'll be

100%. Oh, no. No. No. I just can't it's kinda you know, you think as

a dad, my job is to teach these kids everything and and they're a blank

blank slate, and that is your role. But, yeah,

I I found myself every time we kick them from the backyard. And, dad, can

you kick them from the backyard? Yeah. No worries. And then, oh, mate. You need

to do this or hold this or just I need to catch myself and go,

Paul, fucking. He cares. Let them let them just all like that play

about the fun. Yeah. Just let kid.

Ticket isn't right. I know. So that's that'd be my my advice. Yeah. Don't

turn out into a lesson because I need to work on that, and that's helped

me heaps. And, I definitely think it's helped the relationship with my kids.

Not that it was ever bad, but, yeah, just sometimes just forget about

lessons and who cares at the wrong. Just the fact you play on them is

the best thing in the world. Yeah. But I think as dads I don't know

if it's you. I definitely always was like, yeah. Let's teach

them the correct ways, but, yeah, fuck it. Sometimes, don't take it. Yeah. We know

the right way. So Right. Have you seen me kick your foot?

No. But it's it's interesting. So so you're like, you're

guts out for us. Well, you look at the, like, those the

lessons and things like that, and like you say, you know, have you seen your

kick a footy or you know, if if there was a right way to kick

a footy or golf swing, every professional would be doing the same thing.

Yeah. That's true. Yeah. That's a good point. It's like so you look at those

things, but it's funny. Like, every time I say to people, oh, I'm gonna be

a dad and can't wait and things like that, it's like there's so much negative

to it. Yeah. Why would you do it? Look after your sleep now. No. No.

Get those bicep curls in there before the baby turns up. I

know. And it's once again, it's like goes back to that negative. It's like

Yeah. I don't think people realize they're doing it, Amiek. Like, I'll be honest. I

don't think it comes across in a negative way, but it is. Yeah.

And particularly when you're seeing it like that, that they're not trying to portray it

like that. Some might be. Yeah. But, yeah, I could've been like But You're right,

though. You know, if you you kind of me as to how he spoke to

my first kid, the the comment should be, I do. You've got

so many amazing moments where you're gonna hear him giggle, and it fills your heart

with joy. Look forward to it. When they smile Like, imagine that rather than or

bank you sleep now. Yeah. Yeah. Or, mate, wait till they smile for the first

time. Yeah. Why aren't we doing that as a sign? You're bloody right. Yeah. But

just stay safe. It's the same crap. Yeah. It's the same negative one. Think people

realize they're doing it. I'll be honest. Yeah. I think it's just the the way

the way we're wired. It's like you name 10 things you're good at. I can't

name 10 things you're bad at. Like, how long have we got? Because I mean,

you you can do it. It's exactly the same when they went to talk around.

People don't realize the negative bias that they do have. Yeah. Well, it was

interesting. I did a presentation on Monday, and there was a a

guy in the group who was fully engaged. And I was like, oh, this is

awesome. And then he came up to me after, and he just said, oh, thanks

heaps for the session. He said, oh, I had my kid almost twelve months

ago now, and gonna change your life. Like, it's gonna be the greatest thing you'll

ever do. And I was like, I just said to him, I was like, mate,

I wish more people would say that to me. Yeah. So he just said, you're

gonna have so many great, like, memories and moments and things like that. And he

said, once they start making facial expressions, you're gonna melt. Like, you'll love it. I

just thought, what a good life exists. Yeah. It's beautiful human. But it's also,

like, any presentation, it'd be the same for you guys. Like, people don't have to

come up. No. They don't have to say, you know, thanks so much for your

time. I've got so much out of it. Or I've had countless amount of people

that come up and say, oh, I can relate to that. I've been through something

similar. And it can be pretty draining. But when people just come up and take

the time, whether it be five seconds a minute, like,

it it kind of reinforces that what we're doing is working. And it's only

generally one session. That's what I find. I can tell you one

that we get one student or staff, maybe two. One generally live in camp

and that's and we get in the car on the way home. We're like, man,

this person said this at the end and it's like, oh, that feels good, doesn't

it? Just one out of 200 or one out of 50. But, yeah, you're right.

It's it's interesting. I remember a session that I did in Brisbane. So

it was probably, like, four hundred and fifty or five hundred first year students in

his auditorium. And it's always hard to pick up on facial

expressions and if people are actually taking something away from it. And

I think probably similar to what we spoke about before, when

we leave at a talk that we've done, I didn't say this, I didn't

do that, or I should have done this, or we don't focus on the things

that we actually said that were right and that we did well. And I

left that that presentation and didn't really have any

interaction after it because they're first year uni students. They just wanna go in and

get out. And then the year after, went back to the

same group or, like, the the same place, different group of first year

students, and a guy came up to me after it. And he goes, hey, mate.

I just wanted to let you know. I heard you speak last year. You're the

reason I went to the doctor to get professional help. Right. And I was like,

if I've had a bad day, if there's a group that I work with that

might be high international students that don't really believe in mental health, which is

totally fine. It's how they're raised and brought up. I just think back to that

presentation and go, alright. I don't always know what impact

I'm having. Yep. But that guy there, I might have saved his life. Yep. He

might have. And that's all we need to focus on. Yeah. So if I've done

that with one person, how many others could be out there that are feeling the

same? Yep. Similar with a a guy from the footy club a couple of weeks

ago. I did a presentation there, and he messaged me the next day and said,

hey, mate. Just wanted to let you know I've had a chat to someone at

work about my anxiety. Been struggling for ten years. Bang. Ten

years. Ten years. So it's a long time in there. I would

guess, and I don't know the stats behind this, but I I I reckon the

average would be somewhere between five and ten years of people

dealing with it themselves and holding themselves. I I wouldn't be surprised if the average

is between five and ten years. Yeah. Are it gonna be that long before people

go, shit. I've been trying to do this by myself and I can't now. And

then take that maturity maybe to get that. I don't know what to make it.

When you hear someone speak and they'd be vulnerable, share their story. Gives them permission.

Yeah. At some I feel that's what it is. That you allow people to,

oh, they've gone through it. I can now

too. I can own it. Yeah. And I think that's that's really power.

That's the power of personal story. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's

how you allow other people to because you've lived it. Yeah. And if it's a

yeah. A one on one conversation, you go, mate, I've been going through this a

little bit. And it might be something like, oh, I'm really sorry to hear you've

been going through that. We're not going to downplay what they've been experiencing,

but that might be a great opportunity to say, didn't realize you're going through that.

I've been going through something similar. Bang. There's, like, the big wall between

you Go on. Broken down straight away, and then it's like, I'm gonna check-in on

the boys later on. How are you going? Like, whatever it might be. I

just think, yeah, that story, it just allows you to show empathy. %.

And then you can relate to certain aspects of the what person's

what the person's going through. Yeah. For everyone listening out there, so

Aussie bloke, just typical Aussie bloke. Right? We picked up on that.

It's true. The cuts out of Doris. Come on, Doris.

Oh, Doris. Too lousy bloke. Dale always says it now all the time and I

love it. You always says no one's gonna do the work for you. You're accountable

for it. You're a testament to that. What would you what's

your advice? Everyone out there obviously, number one is, obviously, the

speak up part, but what else what worked for you? What what's your advice? What

did you what got you out of your slumber than just speaking up? Well, finding

a good sleep routine was a good one. Okay. That might, that might change.

Yeah. Yes. That will do. We're being positive, but it

will. Yeah. You're stay safe.

Get your sleep in. Get your sleep in. Like, I think for me,

yeah, the the good sleep routine Mhmm. Is, I think, a really important

one. And I know we're meant to get around eight hours a night, but I've

always said to people that find what works for them Mhmm.

Because for me, I know that sleep, boot camps,

you know, connection, talking, things like that were really important, really

helped me. But I think, yeah, pushing that message of finding

what works for you. Mhmm. So I think the the key things for me

was sleep, like nutrition, exercise,

connection. At the time when I was going through the the

challenging times was goal setting. So putting steps in place

because I was always that type of kid at school, you know, going back to

the school captain, that I'd never set goals because if I didn't

reach them, I wouldn't be disappointed. So I just kind of went

along with it and what results I get will kinda be.

But I knew that I wanted to be better, but I couldn't just go from

being extremely depressed and suicidal to then also just

being better straight away, waking up the next day. So it was all about, you

know, what steps can I put in place to get to under a hundred

kilos again or things like that? But I think the other

thing as well is we can probably be guilty of time at times

of just going to work and, oh, I've gotta do this.

Gotta take the kids to school, or I gotta pick the kids up, or things

like that. Like, creating something in our day that we've got to look forward

to. Yep. So it could be catching up with the mates for a bit or,

you know, going for a kick of the footy or walking the dog, things like

that. If we've got that thing to look forward to rather than rolling out of

bed and going, gotta go to work. It could be, good to go out for

dinner with my mates tonight. I'm just gonna get through work first. So it's Gotcha.

Those types of things. And I think I said before in the

conversation how important that's always been. Like I've said,

at the end of every presentation, along the lines of I thought that opening up

and talking was going to be the hardest thing. But once I actually started

talking, as difficult as it was, going out in public and putting on the mask

was 10 times harder. Right. So you're putting all

that energy in Mhmm. To feel like shit, and then

you're putting a smile on. Hey, boys. How's everything going? You get

home, falling a heap because you've spent so much energy

on trying to Having the facade. Afford it. Yeah. Yep. Look

good, be happy, feel happy, all those types of things. And then you'd get

home and take it out on the people that you care most about. Yep.

So, yeah, the key thing for me is, like, finding what

works for you. And Mhmm. Another one that I did was if I

realized that I'd been triggered by something, so whether it be

sound, smell, date on the calendar,

anniversary of a loved one, things like that, it's putting down what

triggered me, but then what were the coping strategies that I had

to try and pull myself back up a bit quicker as well. So it could

be, you know, best times to, look

after yourself is when you're feeling good because it's probably harder to pick

yourself up if you're feeling like crap. Yep. So it's like, if you don't wanna

train, still train. If you feel like you've kinda got to a good state

where you're fit and you are feeling good mentally and physically,

still train. So yeah. So for yeah. So it's those types of

things that have kept me as close to, you know, the green zone for me

Yep. That, you know, keep me, yeah, in a good head space. And they're all

things that only you can do for yourself. Like Yep. That I think that's the

hardest part. People want solutions or answers,

but the answers are the things you put into place, the work you put in

affects you. Yep. And you gotta know when you go and talk to someone and

put your head up and say I'm struggling You can't say that. You've gotta

put, like Yeah. But the the all the JPL, the Sykes and say is, okay,

Sean, but you've gotta go and you've gotta go and meditate or do mindfulness or

go to the gym or eat healthy or connect to, but you're you're the only

one that can nurture. You can only win. You can go and speak to people

about it, but at the end of the day, everyone's gonna have the same outcome

is that you've gotta put the work in. Take action. And grit your teeth and

do it. Nothing changes. Yeah. You might fall back you might fall off the bike

a few times and get back on and keep going. But And you look at

the the messaging around mental health as well. It's all about if you're struggling, reach

out. Now the last thing I wanted to do was reach out. Because how often

are we on our phone every single day? A fair bit. We're sending a

message. It takes ten seconds to send a message. If I messaged you boys and

said, I'm struggling a bit at the moment, probably takes you three seconds.

Yep. Yep. But that three seconds takes a fair bit of energy to actually

Get the courage. The phone Yep. And go, I'm actually struggling. So let's try and

flip it and check-in with others. So rather than saying if you're

struggling, reach out, which probably a lot of people don't really feel

like doing. It's like, oh, haven't seen the boys in a while. I'm gonna actually

check-in with them. What's been going on? We can kind of pick up

on at times. Like, if someone always uses, you know,

smiley faces or emojis and things like that, if they're not using it, that

might be one of those things that we pick up. Alright. Things might be a

%. But Yeah. Rather than, you know, that reach out, let's check-in.

Yep. I love that. I think that's a really, good message for people to take

away. And if you are listening, it's been a homework, do that. Grab your phone

now. Pick one person. Reach out. One person you haven't reached out to for a

little while and and reach out. Yeah. Because it doesn't it doesn't take long. And

I know it's cliche, but we've got 24 in every day. Yeah. If you can't

find ten seconds to send someone a message Yeah. Because and the

same thing the same talk I did the other day. There was a I said,

how's your day going, mate? Oh, I'm really busy. But most people

that's the that's the response we get, isn't it? Yeah. How's your day? Oh, so

busy. But it's like, are you busy enough to check-in on a friend that can

take five to ten seconds? Yep. And I reckon and I'm I'm speaking with

myself. You put it off, like, I've I've got one mate in mind already now,

so this is great. Thank you. Because I got a mate in mind when I

get out of here. I'm gonna check-in. But I know I've had to do

that for the while, but I haven't yeah. I've just been putting it off, and

that's useless of me. And that's not who I am as a human being, but

and sometimes you need to hear these things or have these conversations with me. That's

why I need to talk jog it and go Podcasts Yeah. Webinars, whatever it

is. Yeah. It's definitely the way to go. I think if everyone takes one thing

away from this, that's the one thing to do. Doesn't cost anything very similar when

you do it right now. And because I look at certain, like,

situations with my life, you know, with Black Saturday and then losing another mate in

02/2019 in a car accident. It's like when we do

continue to put off things, it's like, is that the last opportunity that we

actually get to talk to that person? Yeah. So it's like

not to take those moments with those people for granted because it's like,

oh, I'll catch up with Sadie on Saturday, but we don't know if that's Might

have been a Saturday. Yep. Great. So it's like, you know, that ten

seconds, you know, the small message might make the huge difference in that person's

life. If you haven't spoken to someone today, we don't know how they've woken up.

Yep. They might be feeling like absolute crap. Yeah. But it could be, you know,

just checking in. How's your day going? Like, it might be the thing that needs

to flick the switch for them. Love it. Simple, innit? Love it. Great way to

wrap it up. I think that's, free podcast. People get a lot out of that.

More importantly, go to journeyapparel.com.au. I'm currently doing

a stock take at the moment, so there's nothing up on there at the minute.

Okay. But watch the space? Watch the space. The wolf pack. I love the wolf

pack. I need to, I need to start doing a little bit more with

it because, like I said to you guys before the podcast started, it's one of

those things that it's not a full time gig. I don't take a wage from

it. I do it as a bit of fun and get more people to talk

and hopefully look as good as what us three in this room are.

Hopefully better. No. Nobody conned yourselves. Yeah. No problem,

man. I'll get I I love the wolf and the idea behind that, and you

can lead from the front, the middle, the back. I I love that sentiment. Very

good metaphor. So I will be jumping on the journey of power, and then I'll

be getting myself some of the wolf pack. When the clothes are back on. When

the clothes are back up and running, get the design, please. Not not off. Leave

them on. Get the design. Get the design, please. It's the same thing. I didn't

mention this before. It's like, when I was at my probably one of my

darkest moments, there was the the quote, throw me to the wolves and I'll return

leading the pack. Oh. Which is just, like, super powerful. So it was

kinda like no matter how hard life would be or could be, it's

like you got the right people around you, they'll pull you up and they'll get

you out of that in that dark space. Love it. And I reckon

you'd find a lot of people who go through the tough times like you've

been, you do end up be become the leader because you've developed the skills and

the and the know how and the the feeling of of what it's like to

be down there. Yeah. You can relate to people. You can relate to people, and

then you end up becoming a leader in that in that field. Right? So it's

actually something really powerful that comes from the adverse you had to deal with.

Yeah. Bang. And I remember I'm sorry. I was gonna say as well. Like, I

just remember there was one experience that I had which was pretty

much all about, you know, conversations, safe and comfortable environments, and things like that. And

when I was on that bike ride, you know, a few years ago, there

was a guy that came up, visibly upset. So I'd just finished packing

a truck with all the bike riders gear on the the morning before they're about

to head off on the ride. And there's a guy that came up, and he

was really upset. I was like, oh, there's obviously something going on here.

And he just put his arms out, put him around me, and gave me this

massive hug. And I was like, oh, okay. So, like, let's try and get to

the bottom of it. He pulled back from, like, that that

hug, got, like, got his shit together, and he just said that he lost his

son to suicide thirteen days ago. Oh, man. Jesus. And it

like, it gives me gives me goose goosebumps, like, thinking about

it. But you don't have to drive a truck around that says,

I'm signing to start a conversation about suicide prevention on the start of it. But

we've all got the ability to create that safe and comfortable environment, whether it

be at the office, in a tea room, footy oval, golf

course, whatever, at the pub. Like, if you've got that comfortable

space, like, let's just have those conversations and check-in. I did it last night with

my footy teammates. So I took 20 of team building to start and then

wrapped it up with share your problems with each other just in the back of

the cell with boys, you know, what's happened there. Yep. So you're up. Wherever you

are, doesn't need to be in a school or in a in a workshop or

in a presentation, wherever you are, take the leadership and be brave, and and

let everyone know that's okay to to speak up and, yeah, and be the catalyst

and be the role model. That's super important. Mhmm. %. Well, mate, thank

you for coming on, sharing your message, your story, being vulnerable, sharing

the impact you're having, mate. It's, that's the reason we do this. More

conversations like this will help. So listeners, episode number

362. Go check out Journey Apparel. Follow them on socials.

And when that new stock comes in, the wolf pack Government

heads out. You're really gonna do it, Doris. Thanks, Mickey. It's

awesome.